Flancia Meet

We meet best-effort every Saturday. when utc??
This is where we could have community maintained notes :)

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-06-04]]

attending: [[j0lms]] [[flancian]]
[[j0lms]]
- [[coffee]] in [[venezuela]]
- [[venezuelan architecture]]
- [[work search]] as it interacts with identity
- how would our [[Wikipedia article]] look like? :)
  - [[lovecraft]] wrote more than [[10000 letters]]
- "la conclusión lógica del individualismo es el marxismo"
- [[marx]] sobre [[max stirner]]
  - [[individualism]] vs [[socialism]], a fake dichotomy?
  - [[anarcho capitalism]] vs [[anarcho socialism]], something to explore?
  - [[node club]] on [[utopian socialism]] and the above?
- [[j0lms]] background
  - grew up with an anti-marxist skew due to family influences
  - first read [[marx]] as a kind of anti-bible (hiding), discovered something completely unexpected
[[flancian]]
- I am a bit self promotional
- [[node club]] (as per the above)
  - [[utopian socialism]]
    - [[j0lms]] interesting! to explore: how does this fit into the controversy between [[anarchism]] and [[marxism]]
    - the notion of [[utopia]] is intertwined with the abolition of the [[state]] (we might not be able to abolish the state without going through utopian thinking)
    - [[flancian]]
      - [[murray bookchin]]
    - [[j0lms]]
      - [[laclau]] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Laclau
        
        vs [[zizek]]
      - [[liberalism]] vs [[totalitarism]]
        
        controversial argument:
        
        totalitarianism doesn't exist
        
        if it existed, tech corporations would be the most successful totalitarian entities in the history of human kind.
      - #push [[santiago armesilla]] "los anarcocapitalistas son socialistas"
        
        [[diego fusaro]] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v81ee6_I1Q
      - #push [[hugo chavez]]
        
        [[norberto ceresole]], anti semitic
      - [[enrique krauze]]
      - [[phoenix wright]]
- for this weekend:
  - [[add oauth]]
    - [[j0lms]] un poco de sesgo en contra de autenticación, que sólo fuera un link a git fue una atracción
    - [[flancian]] you are right, thank you! we need to finish the 'add repository' automatic flow first.
  - [[opt in writes]]
    - 1. write message to file per user (user == directory)
    - 1. async process keeps git repository in that directory up to date
    - 1. async process mirrors git repository to git.anagora.org
    - 1. [[gitea]] elsewhere (podman in hypatia) mirrors git.anagora.org
  - [[open letters]]
    - [[building bridges]]
    - [[an open letter to an agora]]

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-05-28]]

attending: [[vera]] [[flancian]]
[[vera]]
- attended [[drum and bass]] show
[[flancian]]
- switched to [[wiki vim]]
- starting therapy on Tuesday
[[socialized healthcare]]
- [[state of oregon]]
- visiting [[portland]] around 24 - 27 June
- before that in [[north carolina]] and [[seattle]]
- [[vera]] used to live in [[south carolina]]
  - [[atlanta]] is pretty progressive
[[soil]]
- [[permaculture]]
- [[carbon sequestration]]
- [[rhizome]]
  - [[deleuze and guattari]]
    - [[trees]] and [[consciousness]]
    - videos of plants reacting to injury: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeLSyU_iI9o
  - [[santiago theory]]
    - [[autopoiesis]]
- [[polis]]
  - [[federation]]
  - [[murray bookchin]]
  - [[flancia]]
  - [[astropolis]]
    - [[arcology]]

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-05-14]]

attending: [[vera]] [[bouncepaw]] [[flancian]]
[[vera]]
- [[webcrate]] [[deta]]
  - https://webcrate.vera.deta.app/crate/public/KhOSRtXQSpwNwmrW
  - sort of like [[solid]], it's an ecosystem but it feels empty for now
  - [[webcrate]] is an app in [[deta]]
  - a "[[cloud computer]]"
  - is it open source? yes, it seems: https://github.com/deta
  - [[berlin]] based
    - [[bouncepaw]] visited [[dresden]] once
    - [[flancian]] :) [[slaughterhouse five]]
      - [[john green]] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6g7S2W27Kc
      - Aliens, Time Travel, and Dresden - Slaughterhouse-Five Part 1
      - [[flancian]] made me think of [[susan bauer]]
- [[bouncepaw]] asks: what is [[bluesky]]?
  - used to look like vaporware, but no longer
  - published an [[ecosystem review]]
  - now actually publishing code?
  - see [[adx]] below
- [[krita]] [[gimp]] [[blender]] [[open source art
  - vera says: https://imgur.com/a/1RPoNUV
  - https://imgur.com/a/zUMI5Xg
  - examples of world class open source art programs
- I want to checkout [[adx]]
  - https://github.com/bluesky-social/adx
    - https://github.com/bluesky-social/adx/pull/116
  - it has post edit functionality!!
[[flancian]]
- I am engaging more with [[social coop]], now an admin and got root
- [[social coop tech group]]
- plan to try [[immers space]] this weekend!
- [[phone to note]]
- connecting agoras
- oauth for easy sign in
[[bouncepaw]]
- 40 rubles for bread
- on the wiki approach to interconnection
  - [[interwiki]] links
  - [[mycorrhiza]] will extend this
  - been writing links with interwiki support for months :) will forward spec/examples
    - https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interwiki
    - Added later: [[interwiki for agora]]
- met someone, a missionary, invited to join a group.
  - bought a book of his months ago
  - a translation of an english language book
  - dialogue between a [[bob]] and some [[guru]]
  - [[vera]] is it [[bahai]]?

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-05-07]]

attending: [[vera]] [[bouncepaw]] [[j0lms]] [[flancian]]
[[bouncepaw]]
- back in hometown for holidays (1st May, 9th May)
- living in the dorm in the uni
- university experiences
  - the internet as a federation of universities in the beginning (plus darpa)
if not the internet, an alternative would've conquered the world instead
- [[xanadu]]?
  - [[xanagora]]
- [[fidonet]]?
- [[gopher]] -> [[gemini]]
[[j0lms]]
- made a decision not to pursue a degree
- #push [[national open university]], distance learning
  - https://www.unipage.net/en/4706/national_open_university
- the problem that they were trying to solve is already solved by the internet
- [[math major]]
  - how to find an [[incentive structure]] to study hard subjects which require an academic environment or strong motivations
  - very good insight
- #q what's the downside with just continuing with the degree and finishing it?
- #a the degree is just very long, and the university has taken a hit due to [[covid]]
- [[flancian]] something between [[open university]] and [[world university]], or a self-assembled distributed [[study groups]]?
  - [[university of bayes]]
  - [[agora university]]
  - studied for 9 years three different subjects, got no degree though
- [[bouncepaw]]
  - [[hermann hesse]]
    - [[the glass bead game]]
- already have a bachelors in music (major in music, minor in composition)
  - that's cool!
- [[idea]]
  - teach people how to [[cheat]], in the sense of taking shortcuts/using new tools to unlock knowledge
  - e.g. someone who knows how to use [[wolfram alpha]], [[gpt-3]] would have a huge pragmatic advantage over most students taking the traditional way
  - [[cyborg approach]]
  - interesting approach, provocative pitch
- looks like:
  - [[coordination problem]]
  - [[incentive problem]]
- post academic ethos
  - what does it look to achieve a phd level of knowledge management (or operating knowledge) without the phd?
  - [[short story]] idea
  - [[bootstrap problem]]
- [[flancian]] can we help with anything?
  - [[j0lms]] would like to look for a job, something more fulfilling, currently doing essentially [[mechanical turk]] level
    - would like to exploit the [[cognitive capital]] they have
  - part time work seems ideal
    - [[bouncepaw]] know a guy who works around five hours a week (!), that's enough to live on and then work on personal projects
what are we working on?
[[bouncepaw]]
- got a FR in March for an html attribute
```
<body data-rrh-addr="/recent-changes">
```
- added [[orphans]] feature: hyphae which have no backlinks
  - https://melanocarpa.lesarbr.es/orphans is an example
  - obsidian has this
- [[flancian]] "six degrees of" would also be interesting
  - [[graphs]]
  - other interesting stuff: nodes in common between users; that in the nth degree
- [[flancian]] how many [[mycorrhiza]] instances are there out there?
  - [[bouncepaw]] would estimate ~tens of instances
- [[flancian]] any way to coordinate multi user edits, have a dialogue?
  - [[bouncepaw]] nothing built in; we might add [[page locks]] like in [[moinmoin]] times
- [[javascript]] is kept minimal and optional in [[mycorrhiza]]
[[vera]]
- [[heisenbug]]
  - what if we uncached the render of the node and kept stuff that gets all subnodes on the system every time
  - https://github.com/flancian/agora-server/pull/57/files
- [[sqlite]] caching
  - https://github.com/fuck-capitalism/agora-bridge/blob/main/sql-import/app.js
- [[agora2]] experiment
[[flancian]]
- [[hashtags]] support
  - [[bouncepaw]] we should get [[sandra]] in here
- [[shamanic agora]]
  - using [[podman]] / [[containers]] for this by default
  - [[bouncepaw]] have you looked into [[yunohost]]?
- [[three node agora]]
- [[building bridges]] [[blog post]]
- [[social coop]]
- perhaps I should set up to [[immers space]]
- set up [[code onboarding]] session for next weekend
[[j0lms]]
- listened to a podcast related to pet project: [[music language]] [[identity thesis]]
- a critique by [[bakhtin]] can be applied here
- will write a [[blog post]] on this
[[bouncepaw]]
- very cool [[drawing]]!
[[immers space]]

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-04-30]]

attending: [[j0lms]] [[protopian]] [[vera]] [[flancia]]
agenda follows (first few items, then we can freestyle)
[[meta]]
- [[jitsi]] UI
- [[immers space]] -- we could test next time
  - [[datatitian]]
  - [[non blockchain nfts]]
- [[time]]
  - coordinating time
    - [[framadate]]
    - [[loomio]]
  - would 9am Pacific work for you for a second meet, maybe [[agora meet]]?
    - [[vera]] sounds good
    - [[protopian]] could work some days, but not often, but earlier on Saturdays would be better
    - [[j0lms]] that would be convenient on weekends but not weekdays
[[vera]]
- #push [[gun]]
  - [[gun eco]]
  - https://github.com/amark/gun
  - https://gun.eco/
  - [[faq]] https://gun.eco/docs/FAQ
- [[agora2]]
  - two repos
- [[prs]]
  - [[flancian]] will review them today, thank you!
- #push [[collaboration commons]]
  - https://bin.snopyta.org/?b1816b0a2a0ac4d3#8NnwC2e1N4rmkbCYDuy7WVWUMarjrVhr18bdJFGrJVb8
  - interesting that they say to avoid [[politics]] -- but also understandable
    - [[vera]] [[affinity groups]]
  - [[protopian]] they seem interested in solving coordination problems
[[j0lms]] interested on opinions on this article: https://www.otherlife.co/pkm/
- this reads antagonistic at once, but in the end it could be an argument for the agora
- the tldr: [[pkm]] is a fad, actually has a great componet of [[status signaling]]
  - but the Agora hijacks this self-interested pursuit for a pro social goal
  - [[j0lms]] note that this aspect (towards collaboration) is what sold me on the agora
- [[j0lms]] justin seems to think that intellectuals belong to a different class (paraphrasing)
  - #push [[justin murphy]]
    - is into [[urbit]]: https://www.otherlife.co/how-urbit-wins/
- [[flancian]] unsure [[urbit]] is "worth it" overall, will read all this though!
- [[flancian]] isn't activitypub enough as a base for coordination/governance? to put it some way.
  - [[j0lms]] venezuelan diaspora in mastodon example
[[flancian]]
- [[pkm book]]
- [[shamanic coders guild]]
  - run another instance of agora
  - [[agora discord bot]] or [[matrix bot]] plus bridge?
- [[murray bookchin]]
  - inspired [[ocalan]]
- [[podman]] / containers and new setup
[[moa]]
- [[flancian]] portable social graph
  - [[flanbook]]
[[j0lms]] it would be nice to have a [[code walkthrough]] to onboard contributors to [[agora]] and [[moa]]
[[elon]] buying twitter -> [[mastodon]] adoption uptick
- [[bluesky]] is independent

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-04-16]]

attending: [[j0lms]] [[protopian]] [[flancian]] :)
[[flancian]]
- away on holidays this upcoming week! in [[spain]] :)
[[protopian]]
- moving tomorrow, but nearby so not as stressful as it could be
- #push [[shamanic coders guild]]
  - lots of potential overlap with [[flancia]]
  - would recommend checking it out!
  - there's a [[discord lounge]], channels with 6-7 people in them
  - not lots of note taking yet but could happen?
  - links do get dumped in associated channels
- #push [[vibecamp]]
  - was great, but maybe even better after the fact (stayed in [[austin]] for a bit with others)
  - [[5 people]] seemed to be about the sweet spot for conversations to really shine
  - vibes:
    - connecting with people
    - building connections
    - work comes after that, building on trust
  - [[interintellect salon]]
    - [[republic of letters]]
    - how to scale up groups, particularly online
    - [[flancian]] was turned off by [[interintellect]] early on but I should really reconsider, check it out again -- thank you!
  - [[git]]
    - fixed garden import \o/
  - [[reading]]
    - #push [[visakanv]]
      - reading [[introspect]]
        
        builds on the [[hero's journey]]
    - [[how to read a book]]
    - #push [[impro]]
      - [[status]]
      - [[flancian]] loved it
    - [[to read list]]
      - [[flancian]] [[the republic]] probably goes well with [[the open society and its enemies]]
    - interested in [[the network state]] / [[how to start a country]] by [[balaji srinivasan]]
      - probably builds on top of [[how to start a new country]], the blog post from [[2019]]
    - Will/protopian says: https://discord.com/channels/903634676500017263/962930903619862548/963290301483585576
  - [[tweets from]] series
    - nice

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-04-02]]

attending: [[flancian]] :)

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-03-19]]

attending: [[bouncepaw]] [[flancian]]
[[university]] in [[russia]]
- can opt into [[midterms]] to get better scores (and of course more learning), depending on the teacher
- [[scholarships]] require very good grades and are only very few
- getting a scholarship after the beginning of the career is hard but it happens
- a year of education in [[kazan federal university]] costs [[1400 EUR]]
- [[10 EUR]]/month for dorm
- [[350 EUR]]/month is a normal "regular worker" salary
- [[1300 EUR]]/month would be a normal [[IT]] salary
- four years bachelors
- two years masters
curiosity: would you work for a [[faang]] or a company in that tier?
- [[flancian]] works in google
- [[bouncepaw]] is unsure, but will likely to agree, if it comes to that
- [[IT]] people are lucky
- how to use our luck with high [[leverage]]
  - option: we could make our own companies
    - Flancia, Ltd.; Flancia Corporation
      - nah, it could be reasonable but not what we're after :)
    - [[transjovian council]] by [[alex schroeder]]
      - https://transjovian.org:1965/page/Introduction
      - https://transjovian.org:1965/page/Bylaws
      - #push [[read]] bylaws
    - start a [[cooperative]]
      - start a [[collective]]
    - do [[altruism]]
    - write a [[book]] / collect and spread [[memes]]
    - start a [[religion]] / [[cult]]
      - [[sikhism]]
        
        sikhs help people, and wear turbans that let others know who they are
        
        wearing something/showing something to communicate values/goals seems like a good idea a priori
        
        but it could lead to oppression. Everyone wears something specific, and someone does not, the latter is a freak
      - [[bahai]]
      - [[jainism]]
      - [[buddhist]] schools
    - start a [[club]]
      - see also [[geek code]], [[glider]] symbol
      - http://www.catb.org/hacker-emblem/ [[esr]]
      - [[mushroom cult]] symbol in username: 🍄
        
        and/or [[wikilinks]] :)
      - [[bouncepaw]] likes organic metaphors, thought of [[silkworm club]] in 2021 because of silkworms producing silk, and [[silk]] feeling like a good metaphor for [[code]]
        
        the club never happened as of [[2022-03-19]]
        
        "what is the point of joining an open source club -- the source is already open"
        
        you could [[lampshade]] this concern and make it into the pitch for the club
        
        https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging
        
        could help the community migrate off centralized tools like [[github]]? or at least mirror
digital groups are a new kind of groups. Historically speaking, they are the newest+youngest, despite being ~50 yo.
- [[counter anti disintermediation]]
[[golang]] package names have repo urls in them
- workaround with redirections hosted on own domain name?
  - a 'centralized' (but community owned) platform that offers redirects as a service might be helpful, make this
  - https://pkg.go.dev/robpike.io/ivy
- does it serve an HTTP redirect or proxy?
- https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42485328/git-url-mapping-to-custom-domain
- http://blog.questionable.services/article/custom-import-urls-github-pages-jekyll/
git push to all giteas
[[twin pages]] by [[bill seitz]]
- [[interwiki]]+[[webmentions]]
- a lost thread with [[neil]]

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-03-12]]

attending: [[j0lms]] [[neil]] [[flancian]]
no notes this time!

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-03-05]]

Welcome to March!
attending: [[vera]] [[flancian]]
- [[git rerere]]
  - smarter conflict resolution/merges?
[[vera]]
- got some code done on agora-ui -> gitea
  - \o/
- Currently writing to gitea api from agora-ui
- [[oauth tokens]] from signin flow not authenticating
  - using personal [[app tokens]] in the meantime
  - can be generated in https://git.anagora.org/user/settings/applications
- added settings to settings page for app token and repo name since user -> repo relationship is one to many
  - refactoring settings page as well
- editor supports creating new nodes
- [[pr]] for fixing assets
  - merging now :)
[[flancian]]
- [[agora matrix bot]]
  - now writes, will probably stop working on it for a bit
  - [[maubot]] is cool but I haven't figured out the debugging flow for bot plugins, it's a bit hacky for now
- bridges!
  - which ones can we develop/install/promote/run for others next?
    - [[telegram]]
    - [[peertube]]?
- [[matrix]] alternative instances
  - #push [[fairydust]] https://fairydust.space is nice, used by [[vera]]
  - [[nomadic identity]] would be great
[[therapy]]
- [[flancian]] want to get an appointment with one to talk [[efd]] mainly
[[war]]
- [[vera]] was in [[tsunami response]] in [[indonesia]]
- how to help?
[[yoga]]
- [[meditation practice]]
  - [[counting]]
  - [[factoring]]
  - [[program counter]]
  - [[lossy encoding]] / [[checksum]]
[[checksums]] -> [[zooko wilcox]]
[[john perry barlow]]

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-02-26]]

attending [[vera]], [[flancian]]
[[ukraine war]]
- :(
[[nazi harassment]] in the [[fediverse]]
- :(
- [[blocklist]] thread you might be interested in: https://social.coop/web/statuses/107784596903671329
- [[idea]] could the [[agora]] or something like it help people agree on blocklists more dynamically, effectively, compassionately?
New meeting time?
- This one's a keeper
- Then for [[Pacific time]] it could be:
  - [[saturday afternoon]]
    - perhaps not great because it might interfere with personal life more often? but it could work
  - [[sunday afternoon]]
    - perhaps not great because it's almost monday and that is a bit depressing sometimes? but it could be uplifting :)
  - [[wednesday afternoon]]
    - could be cool, in particular when [[flancian]] takes wednesdays off!
- #push [[do]]
  - we could do a [[matrix poll]]?
  - and/or [[mastodon]]/[[twitter]]?
  - this reminds us of the idea about setting up a [[consolidated polling platform]] that 'fans out' to different platforms that support polling and 'collects' responses
How does everyone like jitsi vs something else (not google meet)
- [[big blue button]] would probably be top alternative: [[go/meet]] points to [[bbb]]
how is [[zebras]] going?
- [[portland chapter]] applied to a [[mentorship network]]
  - [[rick tarosi]] :)
    - a [[mondegreen]] of [[rick turoczy]]
[[vera]]
- didn't get much done since last time; dealing with life
- planning on making commit to [[agora-api]] to handle
  - git file change stuff
    - ostensibly this will accept a POST/PUT request to api with user/node/data combo and then write changes to disk and then create a git commit with those changes and push to gitea server using users logged in credentials
  - oauth integration
    - I don't like the way that [[gitea]] handles oauth login from mastodon, you have to hard code each allowed host manually which I'm not a fan of. There are plenty of mastodon api apps that let you sign in via any mastodon server, I'm tempted to create our own oauth layer that talks to gitea behind the scenes
      - we could go back to last year's plan w.r.t. using [[moa]] for this: [[go/moa/git]].
      - essentially add a [[git]] or [[gitea]] connector on top of twitter/mastodon
      - we could also open a ticket with gitea to ask about supporting arbitrary mastodon instances
  - adding text editor to agora website for logged in users
    - planning on using [[tinyMCE]] might use something else depending
    - this will talk to the code in agora-api that I mentioned above on submit
[[flancian]]
- same here! :)
- my goal is to just go through the todo list I built last week :)
- [[agora bot matrix]]
- also [[fix gitea]] (certificate)
- look into [[git lfs]]
- #push [[sign in button]]
  - just add a sign in button :)
  - by default it redirects to a 'non implemented yet' page with a description :)
  - perhaps then it only lets you sign in with [[mastodon]], then we add others
- look into [[moa]] auth code

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-02-19]]

attending [[vera]], [[bouncepaw]], [[flancian]], [[will]], [[neil]]
building on the [[stoa]]
[[vera]]
- [[git write flow]]
- [[agora api]]
- [[gitea oauth]]
- we will commit to user repos if they are logged in
- [[flancian]] happy to work on this with you if you need anything
- [[flancian]] perhaps we could release the oauth sign in first?
- once we have this, we could finally start dumping social data for users if they want it
- you get your own personal data store
- is [[logseq]] doing this?
  - they used to, but apparently this is now removed or at least not front and center
  - they may or may not use [[git]] for their planned hosting, actually we should check with them
[[ranking]] in the agora
- reddit-style upvoting?
- action called uprank
  - e.g. #uprank [[@username]]
- could do it in the stoa
- stoa could be a log, like an action log
  - various actions could be available
  - works like a replay log
- e.g. [[marx]] should autopull [[karl marx]]
  - could have a persistent pull button, so next time agora knows to pull it
- e.g. like RT on Twitter started as a user text based action that twitter then codified?
- stoa can provide a nice meta layer on top of people's digital gardens
  - e.g. use pull in the stoa without having to use it in own garden
- it would work on trust on people not gaming the stoa
  - trust based systems can be a good thing
  - e.g. look at problems of trustless blockchain projects
  - if instances are kept small, this is OK
[[flancian]] has been thinking about [[browse as]]
- related to concepts of [[liquid democracy]]
- could be a way of 'previewing' what it might be like before delegating something to someone else
- also relates to curation which is currently undervalued in social media
- lets you burst out of [[filter bubble]]
agora stoa is fully open...
- moderation policy needed
- anyone can edit stoa, what if e.g. end up with fascist subnode
- difference between authentication and authorization
  - ‘authentication is boolean, authorization is a list of permissions’ — [[vera]]
- could possibly have two stoas? one open to public, one more limited to agora users
- [[semi-permeable membrane]] in reference to commons. some boundaries are OK (needed in fact) to not ruin a commons.
- [[reddy2go]] said we need [[bouncers]] and [[buddhas]] in communities
  - bouncers repel violence
  - buddhas try to foster community
  - [[neil]] likes the model of federation in mastodon -- you have a local timeline, and you can prioritize trusted instances you federate with -- but there's always the federated timeline, and also you have blocklists
    - e.g. poa.st and social.coop
    - [[blockchain]] was a [[common blocklist]] project but didn't seem actively maintained
    - [[weirder earth]]
      - has a well maintained list but it seemed to have potential for false positives
    - [[will]] going back to [[browse as]], you could have the concept of adopting someone else's blocklist to trial it/help debug
    - fascist vs shitposter
building "consensus" and group decision-making
- proposal and asking if anybody strongly disagrees
- [[zebras]] are experimenting with ~five types of governance tools
- consensus vs. consent
- upranking as a case study
[[agora bot]]
[[upranking]]
- if you uprank something in your garden, maybe that means 'send it above me'
- or you might be saying that these two subnodes are related
  - one is a comment or annotation of another?
  - push to subnode?
  - possible distinction between garden, stream, comment nodes
    - relates to agora.yaml
- or perhaps it could be a star or a bookmark
- relative ranking is important
- [[neil]] liked how [[ctzn]] did it -- you could apply any action to any resource
  - it could include emojis, but also arbitrary text comments that worked somewhat as [[tags]]
  - you could then perhaps choose to 'show me this node ranked by this particular user-defined ranking'
- [[neil]] takeaway: let's go into the [[stoa]] and start adding relationships between subnodes
  - which actions, relationships, ranking of things will be converge on?
  - [[vera]] one thing we can do: write down which one we uprank/like and why
[[metanode]] or [[supernode]]
- a local graph of nodes/subnodes (where the link may not just be that they are defined by a shared title)
- e.g. random/6
compatibility with [[mycomarkup]]?
- [[vera]] right now the parser is outputting pandoc ast
- [[bouncepaw]] thinking of working on a spec
- [[melanocarpa]] is the garden
- add an API for checking hypha existence

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-02-12]]

attending [[vera]], [[flancian]], [[neil]]
[[pandemic relationships]]
[[the great resignation]]
[[fully automated luxury gay space communism]]
- fearing a [[warring warlords]] future instead
[[arcologies]]
- [[four futures]]
  - [[star trek]] / [[launch]]
[[federation]]
- still hierarchical in current implementations, see the federal government in the US
- [[us federal government]]
- [[horizontalism vs verticalism]]
- [[heterarchy]] in a federation as an alternative
[[occupy]]
- why did it fizzle out?
- [[anarchist cybernetics]]
- anarchists in the french revolution
[[prefiguration]]
- [[speculative fiction]]
- [[solarpunk]]
- [[protopian cyberpunk]]
- [[aliveness]], [[sustainability]]
power consumption is not the problem, fossil fuels are the problem
- what if we had [[nuclear fusion]] [[dyson spheres]] etc?
what can our role be?
- sharing knowledge
[[stellar]]
- non-profit
- quorum based, low energy consumption
[[crypto]]
- very interesting field currently: polarized, but with an emerging [[middle way]]
- [[nathan schneider]] has been talking about the possibilities for [[decentralized governance]]
- there is a [[proposal system]]
- [[burning crypto]]
  - you send crypto to an irretrievable address
- you can [[burn]] or [[stake]] crypto to add or support a proposal
it would be cool if people supporting a proposal could have their support be weighted by e.g. degree of previous collaboration
[[disco]] as a lefty use of blockchain governance structures
[[libertarian socialism]]
- [[libertarian]] seems to have been coopted by the right -- is it "worth" trying to rehabilitate it?
which [[labels]] do you use when in conversation with strangers if the topic comes up?
- try to avoid monolithic labels
[[resonate]]
- is there a [[video streaming coop]]?
  - [[means.tv]] perhaps?
- [[peertube]] is there but UI is a bit clunky
- [[invidious]] is to [[youtube]] like [[nitter]] is to [[twitter]]
  - [[meta]] there is a name/special syntax for the above
directory of coop alternatives?
- [[hypha]]
[[logseq]]
- [[metasj]] wasn't too sure about the term [[commons]], will continue discussing
- [[knowledge futures]] group
#push [[commons]]
- waterway/irrigation commons in switzerland been going for 8 centuries
- [[blockchain]] has all three aspects of [[triad of commoning]]

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-02-05]]

attending: [[bouncepaw]], [[vera]]
http://www.wosonhj.com journals here
[[bouncepaw]] is writing backing up scripts for his wikis
[[github]] as a cloud
[[fantastic fungi]] -- highly recommend [[vera]]
[[solarpunk]], [[a solarpunk manifesto]]
[[pipepunk]]
[[tour bus stop]]
- maybe have agora version?
- http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/TourBusMap
- https://melanocarpa.lesarbr.es/hypha/tour_bus_stop
web clipper
- https://melanocarpa.lesarbr.es/hypha/mycoclipper_2.0
[[raku]], used to be called [[perl 6]]. A fun language

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-01-29]]

attending: [[bouncepaw]] [[flancian]] (9AM) and [[vera]] joined later
will probably do another one of these later in the day
[[bouncepaw]] issue with deep linking into a particular instance of these meetings notes
- [[push]] can be a solution (see above)
- could also have a button with 'create stoa' that does node + timestamp concat (for example)
  - [[community wiki]] meets: https://communitywiki.org/wiki/WikiMeet
  - [[alex schroeder]] is the creator of:
    - [[emacswiki]]
    - [[community wiki]]
    - he also hates bots: https://alexschroeder.ch/wiki/2022-01-24_The_fediverse_doing_previews_for_the_CO₂_god
  - [[mycorrhiza]] now has a 5s delay load in [[robots.txt]]
    - https://github.com/bouncepaw/mycorrhiza/blob/master/static/robots.txt#L27
    - #push [[do]]
      - add robots.txt delay
  - #push [[hypha]]: not [[hyphas]] but [[hyphae]]
  - rename [[wikilink]] to [[hyphalink]] discussion 3 months ago
    - brought up by [[neil]]
  - [[mycorrhiza]] has both page and hypha concepts:
    - a page has a URL -- it's a web view
      - https://mycorrhiza.wiki/recent-changes/20 -- a page, but not a hypha
    - a [[hypha]]
    - links are just called links -- they don't use [[hyphalink]] or [[wikilink]]
      - they say 'external link' or 'local link'
      - sounds similar to [[hyperlink]]
- #push [[anchors]]
  - how to determine scope for a #push (open problem in an Agora, beyond [[agora protocol]] limited implementation)
  - heading/paragraph problem / [[anchoring]] problem
  - anchoring algorithms to deep link or transclude fragments of text from a note
    - could what [[hypothesis]] do be reused to be resilient to edits?
  - a special anchor element:
    - https://mycorrhiza.wiki/hypha/idea/anchor_element
    - need to fix something in mycorrhiza
  - it seems we could agree on how to generate anchor ids for blocks?
    - also, how to regenerate/update anchor ids on updates
    - https://github.com/flancian/agora-server/issues/38 discussion will be held here
  - example things that could work :)
    - me says:[[foo#bar]]
    - me says:[[hypha/coop]]
    - me says:[[go/hypha/coop]]
    - me says:#pull [[hypha#coop]]
    - me says:#pull [[hypha/coop]]

#push [[flancia-meet-2022-01-22]]

here [[flancian]], [[bouncepaw]], [[neil]], [[will]]
flag for [[esperanto]] on [[bouncepaw]]'s wall
[[bouncepaw]] https://pad.riseup.net
[[bouncepaw]] [[community wiki]]
- [[push]] [[meatball wiki]]
  - http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/
  - [[bus stops]] http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/TourBusMap
  - you can add your wiki to the list
  - make sure it loops back to the beginning :)
  - like a webring
  - agora could have something similar for digital gardens
  - does anything have a tree rather than sequential?
  - tour bus stop does have multiple routes - and you can change stops
[[rings]] and [[discovery]]
- [[merveilles ring]]
- [[push]] [[indieweb webring]]
  - https://indieweb.org/indiewebring
- [[doubleloop]] [[my garden circles]]
  - organized manually
  - per area
aspects of the [[anagora]]
- [[doubleloop]] [[reader]]
- [[flancian]] [[integrator]]
[[agora search]] [[ranking]] - can work implicitly via [[push]] [[pull]]
- [[push]] [[pull]] is a more forceful intent than links alone
[[mycorrhiza wiki]] - works at a block content level
[[ted nelson]]
- is [[push]] based transclusion an idea that nelson discussed?
- ([[pull]] for sure)
- [[bouncepaw]] read [[literary machines]]
- [[xanadu]] - [[maggie appleton]] describes as a set of patterns that are succeeding rather than a failed software project
- [[push]] inspired by [[pubsub]]
  - you watch for changes and then push this update out
  - pubsub topics map to agora nodes
  - with push you have no control over how it might be displayed on the other end
  - on the receiving end you could ack (or pull?) to specify how the push gets handled
  - [[doubleloop]] [[webmentions]] work like this -- the receiving side has control on how to handle/process
  - [[activity pub]] inbox/outbox model
[[tags]] and [[wikilinks]]
- wiki history - [[category pages]]
  - no tags, just link CategoryProfile instead of having hashtag #profile
  - reference/inclusion dichotomy
- [[flancian]] could just push 100 pages
- what does [[fedwiki]] do in relation to this?
[[browsing styles]]
- [[push]] [[cartographist]]
  - [[browser]] https://github.com/szymonkaliski/cartographist
- [[push]] [[gingko]]
  - https://gingkoapp.com/
  - https://gingkowriter.com/
- [[cortex]] browser
- original browser from [[tim berners lee]] - each new page was a new window
  - related to interest in [[spatial software]] now, e.g. [[miro]]
- original [[netscape browser]] had backlinks, but via a central server
  - we have similar services now, but none are built-in to browsers, e/g https://ahrefs.com/backlink-checker
[[federated wikis]]
- [[bouncepaw]] federation is an extension of the core idea of [[interwiki linking]]
- [[flancian]] is interwiki linking a type of federation?
- [[bouncepaw]] don´t think so as interwiki linking doesn´t request any data of the target
- do you know of protocols to federate wiki apart from [[fedwiki]]?
  - [[massive wiki]] and [[agora]]
  - [[mycoverse]] will be a federation of [[mycorrhiza]] servers (fungi) plus traditional websites (plants!)
- [[mycomarkup]] can be generated from websites
  - same for [[markdown]]
  - see https://github.com/mozilla/readability
- [[project underlay]]
should we have [[mycorrhiza]] as a [[stoa]]?
[[push]] [[authentication]]
- [[oauth]]
  - [[single sign on]] -- could sites that trust each other share oauth credentials?
  - Turned out to be complex for [[mycorrhiza]]: https://github.com/bouncepaw/mycorrhiza/issues/74
  It may look simple from the surface, but there might be some hidden gotchas that'll ruin the whole security model.
- [[indieauth]] https://indieauth.net/ https://indieauth.com
- [[solid project]] https://solidproject.org
- [[telegram]] has an authentication service
  - bot-based
  - simple API
  - supported by [[mycorrhiza]]: https://mycorrhiza.wiki/help/en/telegram
- [[matrix]]-based auth? Gotta read the spec: learn about how identities and auth are done
[[oembed]]
- [[open graph]] is widely used for link previews in social media

Receiving pushes... (requires JavaScript)

⭕ wormhole to [[hypha#coop]] built by an Agora user

⭕ wormhole to [[hypha/coop]] built by an Agora user

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📖 stoas (collaborative spaces) for [[@anonymous@doc.anagora.org/flancia meet]]

Open document (Hedgedoc) at https://doc.anagora.org/flancia-meet
Video call (Jitsi) at https://meet.jit.si/flancia-meet