[[fellowship of the link]]

📚 node [[fellowship of the link]]

📓 garden/flancian/fellowship of the link.md by @flancian ️👁 ️📝

a [[community]].
- #chat https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/channels/ogm-fellowship-of-the-link
  - #doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RAourQe_MKh0uWomLsS_V5ea3zm30g8paE49X56jIHs/edit
  - #pull [[fotl]]
  - #pull [[sje]]
  - #pull [[building bridges]]
  - [[interop of chat]]
  - [[interop of links]]

📓 stoa/doc.anagora.org/fellowship+of+the+link.md by @anonymous@doc.anagora.org ️📝

Fellowship of the Link on June 9, 2022

Attendees

[[chris aldrich]] [[flancian]] [[jerry michalski]] [[diego]]

Inviting others

-> https://doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link

📓 stoa/doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link.md by @anonymous@doc.anagora.org ️📝

2022-06-24

Attending: [[jerry michalski]] [[chris aldrich]] [[flancian]]
Discussion of [[go links]]
- Demo in anagora.org :)
- [[go/fotl/chat]] and [[go/fellowship of the link/chat]] both now work
Time?
- 11am Pacific on Fridays?
  - Could conflict with date nights in Europe :)
- [[11am Pacific on Thursdays]]?
  - Let's try this!
[[shared resources]]
- [[chris aldrich]] putting up something in the site
  - add a go link :)
- here's what we're doing, here's where we're going, here is how to join
- let's use [[chat]] for coordinating
what's a high leverage topic for the three of us?
- [[chris aldrich]] what's pareto optimal/the 20% we could tackle first?
- [[jerry michalski]] has been working on a [[shared vision]]
- [[flancian]] [[2025]]
[[jerry michalski]]
- how to build a "webring" for meetings, documents about projects
- [[obsidian]] with [[excalidraw]] done by a friend
  - diagrams.net is also good
- [[open global mind]] ~ [[ogm]]
  - [[flotilla]] -> [[federation]]
  - what do you see from the top of your mast?
  - [[multi plane camera]]
  - [[map of the future]] ~ [[mosaic]]
- [[flancian]] [[agora]] plus iframes for mvp of the above
- [[chris aldrich]] standard based, using each item as a block
  - [[oembed]]?
  - tools tends to target one tool only, lots of duplication
  - [[activitypub]]
    - [[chris aldrich]] over designed it, over specified it, few people understand it completely
      - [[aaron parecki]]
    - [[mastodon]] as the de facto standard rather than ActivityPub itself
      - we can bridge to mastodon or pleroma, do not need to reimplement it
    - what about [[rss]]?
      - [[jerry michalski]] does this not break transclusion?
      - How can we prevent the unproductive RSS/Atom wars of the early blogosphere?
  - [[jerry michalski]] [[least common denominator]]
    - problem or potential?
    - [[tbl]] simplified [[sgml]] and made it break gracefully
    - [[resiliency]]
  - [[cory doctorow]] on the [[tragedy of the commons]]
    - [[modus operandi]] and [[throughput]] amazing
    - [[chris aldrich]]: cory has a [[commonplace book]] essentially, see https://pluralistic.net/2021/01/13/two-decades/
    - [[flancian]]
      - [[adversarial interoperability]] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interoperability
      - [[catalog of missing devices]]
from chat unprocesssed
- Jerry Michalski dice:transclusion
- Chris Aldrich dice:How to create a Read Fork Write Merge Web?

2022-06-17

Attending: [[jerry michalski]], [[metasj]], [[mathew lowry]], [[flancian]]
(joined late) (chat history)
[[jerry michalski]] and [[mathew]] on [[medium]]
#push [[mathew lowry's chapter]] for [[pkg book]]
- https://mathewlowry.medium.com/from-personal-to-social-knowledge-graphs-a-vision-statement-draft-fc86ef4f7022
- outsourcing commenting to [[hypothesis]]
- [[web annotation standard]]
- [[activitypub]]
- [[activitypub]] to [[web annotation standard]] bridge?
- [[jerry michalski]] [[nuggets]] in the [[big fungus]]
- [[mathew lowry]] [[nuggets]] as cross-linked executive summaries
[[fediverse]]
- [[jerry michalski]] what's the simplest possible example to get going on comments and annotations on the fediverse?
- what would be the mvp?
  - [[mastodon]] server?
  - [[mattermost]] channel
  - how to [[interlink]]?
[[metasj]]
- challenge: take a [[global commons]] that you care aobut, and scope out its potential full extent
- [[jerry michalski]] take a [[pattern language]] that already exist
  - (lists three)
    - [[liberating structures]]
      - https://www.liberatingstructures.com/1-1-2-4-all/
    - Peeragogy
    - Wise Democracy Pattern Language
    - chat bots: [[five whys]]
  - ...and turn them into [[commons]] shared materials and instrument
  - [[pattern languages]] == [[distilled wisdom]]
  - from patterns to praxis
  - a platform for pattern languages: this was tried on top of [[mediawiki]] [[smw]]
    - [[metasj]] [[wikibase]] >> [[smw]]
  - [[instrumentalize]] > [[instrument]]?
    - Integrate
    - Arborize
    - what's the verb when mycelium sprouts a mushroom?
    - [[fruiting]]
  - [[metasj]] tried to put [[ward]] and [[alexander]] in contact to discuss agreeing on a platform
  - [[jerry michalski]] [[engelbart]] struggled with this
  - a strategy to make everybody facilitating facilitations a better facilitator
  - leads to a global memory artifact
- [[mathew]] what's the end goal of this envisioning/scoping exercise?
  - [[metasj]] a couple of measures of scope:
    - proportion of total human societal interaction affected in a given year
    - [[jerry michalski]] (ways of measuring global impact)
    - empowering people
- [[jerry michalski]] [[applause in sign language]]
  - used in [[occupy movement]]
  - other gestures used: disagree, blocking, speak louder
  - [[flancian]] related: [[free, fair and alive]] [[anarchist cybernetics]]
  - [[reading club]] on [[dawn of everything]] in [[ogm]]
    - -> [[node club]]
- [[mathew lowry]]
  - tools to better capture knowledge produced from conferences/workshops and share it with the world
- [[jerry michalski]] [[idea commons]]
  - pastors.com is where a lot of evangelical preachers get what they say on Sundays (!)
  - open source sermon central
- [[flancian]]
  - pattern repository, people router
  - alternatives
- [[flancian]]
  - [[counter anti disintermediation]] leading back to distributed systems and liquid democracy
    - maybe could yield a metric w.r.t. degree of distrubution of structures of power
  - [[complementary cognitive artifacts]]
    - maybe yields a metric w.r.t. resiliency to losing
  - composed effects of higher efficiency in cooperation, [[coordination problem]]
- chat
  - unschooling, regenerative agriculture, traffic calming...
  - ice:bootstrapping: ways to make people vectors for a new approach
  - patterning: process for helping people abstract their work to its full potential extent
  - which will usually overlap w/ the full-extent of other existing/smaller patterns
  - matchmaking: people who could work on the same vectors
  - https://www.clearerthinking.org/
[[action items]]
- [[flancian]]
  - upload past recording to youtube
[[metasj]] and [[flancian]] 1:1
- [[building bridges]], [[wormholes]]
- [[workshops]] and [[facilitating]] of world building
- [[future casting]] -> [[incepting]]
- [[wikimedia]] + [[web annotations]]
  - [[diego de la hera]]
  - there is an extension that makes them worked well together
  - how does the community moderate annotations?
  - [[flancian]] default: the site sets the default ranking function for annotations. and perhaps some annotations are community owned, wiki like?

2022-06-09

Attending: [[jerry michalski]], [[diego de la hera]], [[flancian]], [[chris aldrich]]
Inviting others
- [[flancian]] been inviting people already, but would be like to use some kind of policy?
- [[jerry michalski]] suggest to use the Mattermost to coordinate; use this space to consider together our goals and attract others like this
  - [[mattermost]] https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/channels/ogm-fellowship-of-the-link
- let's use the list of people in the [[doc]] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RAourQe_MKh0uWomLsS_V5ea3zm30g8paE49X56jIHs/edit
  - to brainstorm on who to invite if you want to discuss a priori
- [[flancian]] invited Dan because of his interested in the space + his experience with web standards
[[jerry michalski]]
- [[web]] https://www.fellowshipofthelink.org/
- who wants admin? :)
- we could also start groups in social networks, e.g. linkedin
  - [[flancian]] [[mastodon]]?
  - got stuck in [[choosing an instance]]
    - [[diego de la hera]] mastodon.social could be seen as the default
    - (instance delegation could be interesting, web of trust like)
    - http://www.unmung.com/mastoview is a tool for helping to choose Mastondon instances
  - [[diego de la hera]] lack of defaults as a hindrance to adoption here, in the indieweb as well
  - [[jerry michalski]] [[barry schwartz]] https://bra.in/4jXVP2
    - [[the tyranny of choice]]
    - [[schelling point]]
  - [[chris aldrich]] with more choice you usually get increasing complexity
    - you are given so much choice it's almost too much (in the indieweb)
    - [[jerry michalski]] templates, walkthroughs add a lot of value
    - [[chris aldrich]] you need either a lot of time or people motivated because they're building business
    - [[peter kaminski]] introduced [[jerry michalski]] to [[obsidian]]
    - on straightforward vs powerful tools
    - [[diego de la hera]] on the power of forks
      - e.g. [[chris aldrich]]'s setup is something we could fork to bootstrap a new user's environment
      - people have copy/pasted Chris's website already, full pages at a time :)
  - [[flancian]] [[map of the fediverse]]
longer term goals / brainstorming / dream sharing
- [[jerry michalski]]
  - series of projects revolving around these issues
    - [[open global mind]], started 2y ago
      - part of a [[flotilla]] with other organizations
      - 8am pacific, standing call for [[ogm]]
    - [[rel8]]
      - why is it so hard to share, integrate notes -- build arguments?
        
        -> [[argument mapping]]?
        
        [[argumentation theory]]
        
        [[stephen toulmin]] -> [[toulmin model of argument]]
      - [[the big fungus]] == https://thebigfungus.org
      - interested in the scaffolding, infrastructure to share ideas
    - [[think camp]] funds startups in this space
      - "profitable businesses that feed the [[commons]]"
  - read an interesting article today, conservative point of view with good arguments even though some disagreeable premises
    - how do we put this article up to scrutiny and learn from it together?
      - -> [[web annotations]]?
      - [[gyuri lajos]]
        
        [[jerry michalski]] let's have a group sync with Gyuri?
        
        [[chris aldrich]] trails are related to [[vannevar bush]]'s
  - wishlist for [[fotl]]: how do these parts fit together?
    - how do we make it so that our notes provide maximum utility, spread through the big fungus
- [[chris aldrich]] would like to focus on how to
  - make it all work together
  - make the systems be easy to use
  - make something that is as simple to understand as facebook?
  - I'd like to see [[commonplace books]] that can "talk" to each other.
  - "the [[stream]] flows by too fast"
    - turning streams into gardens
    - [[neil]] from the Agora has great writing on streams vs gardens, how they relate to each other - https://doubleloop.net/
[[john borthwick]] at [[betaworks]] has funding for small projects [[think camp]]
Watch parties
- [[connection series]]
  - watch these, take notes/diagrams and share/interop
  - -> [[books, paintings, movies, ideas that shaped many people's lives]]
    - https://bra.in/5pxdW6
- [[dan whaley]] youtube annotations are a side project / hobby
  - [[docdrop]] https://docdrop.org/
[[diego de la hera]]
- web annotations were mentioned; thought of two connections
  - [[peter hagen]] -> [[lindylearn]] https://lindylearn.io/ and specifically https://annotations.lindylearn.io/new/
    - social platform where you would find what other people are annotating and join the conversation
    - provides a discovery layer for what others are reading and thinking about
  - [[chrome]] is also tackling annotations
  - [[worldbrain]], [[memex]]?
  - it seems like here we want to work more on the level of how to connect different annotation tools at a (federated?) layer
    - perhaps what we need is an integration device at this layer, e.g. [[wikilinks]]
Timing
After the event, [[Mathew Lowry]]: https://doc.anagora.org/Kz1qvywQRjq9nZ-ElXlHUg?view

Matterbridge site for group communication: https://chat.collectivesensecommons.org/agora/tips

https://collectivesensecommons.org/

Mathew Lowry mentioned [[Mysilio]]

https://github.com/mysilio-co
(https://mysilio.com/) a "thinking tool"/platform that uses [[Solid]] - funded by [[Foundation for the Web]]; has a social media tool and a digital garden

[[David McRaney]] (twitter) has several books:

[[How Minds Change]] #books/wanttoread/2
[[You're Not So Smart]] #books/wanttoread/2
[[You are Now Less Dumb]]

2022-06-02

Attending: [[jerry michalski]], [[diego de la hera]], [[flancian]], [[chris aldrich]]
Our personal history
- Diego en Córdoba
- Jerry Michalski pasos por sudamérica, ahora en Portland
- Eduardo de Buenos Aires, ahora en Suiza
Relationships locally and globally
Jerry: [[open global mind]] meeting just before
- Send email to sociate@gmail.com to sign up :)
([[chris aldrich]] joined, introductions)
- [[jerry michalski]]
  - [[the brain]]
  - [[chris]] any shares in the company?
  - not anymore
  - do you have backups?
  - occasionally :) but the format is a big bag of [[json]] objects, not bery interoperable
    - wishlist: [[open global mind]] platform instead
- [[diego de la hera]]
  - hypothes.is user, contributor as the maintainer of the unofficial extension for firefox; working with [[wikimedia foundation]]
  - met Chris through hypothes.is
- [[chris aldrich]]
  - background: biomedical and electrical engineer, been on the web since the early 90s
  - [[indieweb]] / https://indieweb.org
  - [[open web backup]], strong belief in owning your own domain, your own data, your own identity
  - done work on genetics, but germane: spent a lot of time in the [[entertainment industry]] as it overlaps with the open web
  - massive amount of data
  - history, culture as intertwined with knowledge tools
  - current focus on wikis and note taking tools
[[jerry michalski]] wishful thinking for a design in this space
- it should allow all users to view data through their chosen tools
- sometimes you change tools as you shift what you need to do (they are good at different modes of thinking)
- [[planes]]
  - [[multi plane camera]], [[disney history]]
    - similar to layers in photoshop/gimp
  - bought https://www.playnz.dev
- [[kumu]] == https://kumu.io
  - is it open source?
- [[jupyter notebooks]] are an inspiration
- https://thebigfungus.org
  - [[leaf cutting ants]]
  - ([[diego de la hera]] worked with them)
  - [[symbiotic relationship]] with the fungus
- [[diego de la hera]] we mentioned a diversity of tools here:
  - closed and open
  - wiki like and otherwise
  - ...but as long as these platforms provide this data in a documented way, do we need a central tool? wouldn't collaboration emerge even without a central tool?
  - [[jerry]] +1 -- the big fungus is a metaphor for the result of this collaboration. But [[playnz]] might be an [[mvp]]/[[demo]] or just an experiment/playground for interoperability.
  - are these tools perhaps already playns?
    - they might be, yes.
  - [[chris aldrich]] [[progressive enhancement]] is key
    - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement
    - how can we take all these tools and build an architecture that supports progressive enhancement?
    - we start with plain text as the base, then you can add things like markdown/html, then you add photos/media
  - [[flancian]] problems and opportunities:
    - exploring hub architecture vs full graph integration
    - lossiness as you interop through tools, playns
    - complexity of integrations
      - [[chris aldrich]] pairwise compatibility is a nightmare
  - [[translation as a service]]
    - [[pandoc]]
    - [[chris aldrich]] [[paas]] == [[pandoc as a service]]
  - [[markdown as lingua franca]]
- [[jerry michalski]]
  - [[mapping tools for thinking]] in [[jerry's brain]]
  - also an amazing list of people
  - book: [[the extended mind]]
- interest in the [[crystallization]] of what we know together
  - contributing to the same lists -> [[collective action]]
  - [[diego de la hera]] the relationship between these efforts and [[wikimedia]] projects
    - [[intermingle]] / preservation of voices
    - [[ward cunningham]]! [[fedwiki]]
    - Ward's calls
  - [[chris aldrich]] we should invite [[mark bernstein]], [[tinderbox]]
[[fellowship of the link]] as it relates to other projects
[[diego de la hera]] isn't the web as a whole what we need? :)
- [[html is the lingua franca of our time]]
- [[web mentions]]
  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmention
  - https://brid.gy/
  - [[indieweb]] has examples of this working
    - [[acid test]] of interoperability
    - [[swat0]] https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SWAT0
  - search engine for tagged/linked trusted content
    - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonplace_book
    - intimacy gradient
  - [[delicious]]
    - #c19 == [[19th century]]
  - [[technorati]]
[[lists]] we could assemble:
- people in this space
  - the above
  - [[tantek Çelik]]
  - "how can we build this with as little technology as possible"
- projects in this space (knowledge tools)
- recurrent calls in this space
  - https://lu.ma/toolsforthoughtrocks
- possible [[lingua francas]]
[[chris aldrich]] "The world lost so much because Vannevar Bush didn't use the word commonplace book in his article As We May Think."
- how can we take open tools like [[logseq]], or semi-open like [[obsidian]], and create a reusable store
- [[blot]] == https://blot.im
- [[granary]] == https://granary.io/ for translating between silo formats as well as feed formats [[rss]], [[atom]], [[h-feed]], [[JSONfeed]], etc.
https://bra.in/3vGWLa
https://bra.in/7v2NRe

📓 stream/anagora@matrix.org/fellowship of the link.md by @anagora@matrix.org

[[2022-05-20 00:20:45]] [[@flancian:matrix.org]] (link):
- the latter group is called the [[fellowship of the link]] == [[fotl]] :)
[[2022-06-03 22:29:23]] [[@flancian:matrix.org]] (link):
- want to join the [[fellowship of the link]]?
[[2022-06-25 00:43:54]] [[@flancian:matrix.org]] (link):
- btw you might be interested in [[fellowship of the link]]. next meetup is next Thursday at 11AM Pacific / 18 UTC

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📖 stoas (collaborative spaces) for [[fellowship of the link]]

Open document (Hedgedoc) at https://doc.anagora.org/fellowship-of-the-link
Video call (Jitsi) at https://meet.jit.si/fellowship-of-the-link

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